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Q & A / Re: Newer 215 bass cabs vs Older
« Last post by Khrist92 on July 01, 2018, 08:56:09 am »
My two cents: I have a 2000s and a 200s cab. Since the 200s is smaller, its become my main gigging cab - I loaded it with Eminence Omega Pro 15's. With my T, it sounds fantastic. The 2000s I put JBL E-140's and use it at home. Very solid tone out of that one too. The 2000s originally had D-140's, and the 200s originally had E-130's in them.
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Q & A / Re: Newer 215 bass cabs vs Older
« Last post by GrannyGremlin on June 25, 2018, 12:25:29 pm »
As a Sunn specific forum, most of us here are familiar with the development history of the product. Also many here have and regularly gig the vintage stuff gear, and understand the science of transducers.

The Model 215 doesn't have a "horn." It has a slot port across the bottom of the cabinet. The 200S and similar cabinets didn't really have a horn, either, although that's what Sunn called it. For one thing, the flare is the wrong direction for it to function as a horn. The later 215S and similar cabinets did have a horn flare on the port, but the resulting horn is too short and too small to function as a horn in the frequencies in which the port is active, so it and the 200S ports function pretty much as slot ports, too.

The 200s (and similar; 2000s, 215B, 215BH, 215S, 215RH) IS a "reflex horn" cab.  That is the designation of the enclosure type.  No, it's not a 'horn' per se: hence the qualifier "reflex."  For the sake of succinctness, I referred to that angled baffle/wave guide/whatever you insist on calling it, as the horn; way to be retentive.  And you say Sunn called it that too so, way to be obviously unfair.

 As for the Model 215, sorry, in context I confused it with the 215S/B.  ... no idea what EdBass means about me explaining how transducers work (I didn't) and no it is not obvious that people on an amp forum would understand that (you're not all engineers as far as I know; which is not at all - if you are it's not obvious).   Sorry also about the 'history' bit - this forum uses the same software and theme as another I am on; thought I was elsewhere.

As for the horn flare going the wrong way - there is no such thing; orientation does not matter.  I have no idea where you got that; perhaps I misunderstand your intent with that statement.

Even Isaac admits (after claiming the JBL + cab combo is the magic in the 200S/2000S cabs) that the 215S cab (essentially the same design, but sideways - improved I'd say, but still the same idea; probably different port tuning) is great with EVs.  This supports my point.  Incidentally, for more bass, lay those things sideways so the 'ports' are along the ground.  Effectively extends the horn mouth and therefore lower register response.

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Q & A / Re: Newer 215 bass cabs vs Older
« Last post by EdBass on June 24, 2018, 12:30:49 pm »

Dissagree (though that is the common thinking on the matter).

IMHO the magic if the cab itself - a reflex horn - Sunn (Mr Soundholm himself) pretty much invented those (story is the idea came to him in a dream)

As a Sunn specific forum, most of us here are familiar with the development history of the product. Also many here have and regularly gig the vintage stuff gear, and understand the science of transducers.
Isaac nailed it.

The Model 215 doesn't have a "horn." It has a slot port across the bottom of the cabinet. The 200S and similar cabinets didn't really have a horn, either, although that's what Sunn called it. For one thing, the flare is the wrong direction for it to function as a horn. The later 215S and similar cabinets did have a horn flare on the port, but the resulting horn is too short and too small to function as a horn in the frequencies in which the port is active, so it and the 200S ports function pretty much as slot ports, too.

All true, and another point is that MI (Musical Instrument) cabinets are usually tone producers, as opposed to tone reproducers as are SR (Sound Reinforcement) boxes. All that matters in an MI cab is that it sounds good in the application it’s used for, and for bass guitar the combination of Conrad’s “dream” cab and JBL’s D140 sounds phenomenal to my ear.
It’s Mr. Sundholm’s design, he can call it whatever he wants too.
The D140 has serious limitations mechanically compared to modern drivers, however tonally they are the “magic” of the old Sunn boxes.

The later 215S also sounds great with D/K140’s, and unlike the 200S, as a front loaded cab is very flexible with what drivers you can physically load into it. 
My go to 2X15 is a 215S loaded with EVM15L’s, I'm afraid to risk any vintage JBL AlNiCo drivers in it because I often drive the cab pretty hard with 225-400 watt tube amps. The smooth cone L’s are a bit more defined through the mids than the EVMB’s, and still have the bottom to thump when used in the 215S.
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Q & A / Re: Newer 215 bass cabs vs Older
« Last post by Isaac on June 22, 2018, 08:24:15 am »
The Model 215 doesn't have a "horn." It has a slot port across the bottom of the cabinet. The 200S and similar cabinets didn't really have a horn, either, although that's what Sunn called it. For one thing, the flare is the wrong direction for it to function as a horn. The later 215S and similar cabinets did have a horn flare on the port, but the resulting horn is too short and too small to function as a horn in the frequencies in which the port is active, so it and the 200S ports function pretty much as slot ports, too.
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Q & A / Re: Newer 215 bass cabs vs Older
« Last post by GrannyGremlin on June 21, 2018, 02:12:01 pm »
I think most of the "magic" in the older Sunn cabs was in the JBL D140 drivers they many came with. I don't have experience with the later Fender/Sunn cabs, however the advances in transducer technology over the years would indicate that they are probably fine, just don't pay "vintage Sunn" dollars. Current light weight neodymium cabs have driven run of the mill big cab prices way down.
What are you driving the cab with?

Dissagree (though that is the common thinking on the matter).

IMHO the magic if the cab itself - a reflex horn - Sunn (Mr Soundholm himself) pretty much invented those (story is the idea came to him in a dream), and they are not a common cab type.  They sound just as good with EVs in them for example.  Similar cabs were made by Musicman (there is a relativly large and dedicated 115RH fanbase on most bass forums; myself included), EV, and Garnet (but they're rare and if you find one you better let me at it first before you extradite it from it's native land you dirty bastards).  Probably a few others.

Sunn made 1x15 versions as well.  Both 1 and 2x15 came in 24" wide vs 30" wide versions (to match the 60 and 120 watt heads respectively); not sure if there is a sound fdifference but the 2x15 is easier found in 30" and the 1x15 in 24.  Later era (80s) also had some reflex horns but in addition to the change in aesthetics (easy to spot a 70s vs later one) they changed the orientation/placement of the ports to along 1 side vs in the middle, but same operating principle. They are just as good and probably slightly more rugged (metal grill vs cloth etc), also cheaper, but used cheaper drive units (IIRC, Cerwin Vega if you're lucky, otherwise rebranded Eminences). Watch out because then they also started making simple bass reflex ('ported' ) cabs - if you see a round port tube, not those.

Of the lot the MM 115RH is probably the easiest to find and cheapest (factory loaded with Eminences which suck, with optional EV upgrade which thankfully many people had the sense to take advantage of).  Sunns can be common in some parts of the States as well, especially the W coast, but usually fetch higher prices due to being en vogue with the doom folks.

There's also schematics on this site if you're handy enough to build one.

I have a Sunn Model 215 cabinet. I replaced the original drivers with JBL 2205B drivers, which are essentially K140s without the aluminum dome. It sounds very good. I think the cabinet is tuned to a higher frequency than is ideal for the JBLs, but maybe it's a good tuning for the original drivers.

Yes, the 2205B has a resonant frequency about 20Hz lower than the original D130s. Try adding stuffing to lower the tuning.  You can also enlarge the horn throat (the smaller end), but that's not reversable, so probably not the best idea.... or try some EV 15Ls in there; JBLs are not worth the current going prices IMHO.

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Q & A / Re: Newer 215 bass cabs vs Older
« Last post by VoltaTerminal on June 18, 2018, 09:49:29 am »
I think most of the "magic" in the older Sunn cabs was in the JBL D140 drivers they many came with. I don't have experience with the later Fender/Sunn cabs, however the advances in transducer technology over the years would indicate that they are probably fine, just don't pay "vintage Sunn" dollars. Current light weight neodymium cabs have driven run of the mill big cab prices way down.
What are you driving the cab with?

I'm expecting to get a GK 800RB. My current head is an Acoustic 140 whose transformer just gave out. I just purchased the Sunn 215 off reverb for super cheap so I'm hoping that if I want to replace the drivers I can without breaking the bank.
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Q & A / Re: Newer 215 bass cabs vs Older
« Last post by Isaac on June 18, 2018, 08:18:38 am »
I have a Sunn Model 215 cabinet. I replaced the original drivers with JBL 2205B drivers, which are essentially K140s without the aluminum dome. It sounds very good. I think the cabinet is tuned to a higher frequency than is ideal for the JBLs, but maybe it's a good tuning for the original drivers.
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Q & A / Re: Newer 215 bass cabs vs Older
« Last post by EdBass on June 18, 2018, 06:36:37 am »
I think most of the "magic" in the older Sunn cabs was in the JBL D140 drivers they many came with. I don't have experience with the later Fender/Sunn cabs, however the advances in transducer technology over the years would indicate that they are probably fine, just don't pay "vintage Sunn" dollars. Current light weight neodymium cabs have driven run of the mill big cab prices way down.
What are you driving the cab with?
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Q & A / Newer 215 bass cabs vs Older
« Last post by VoltaTerminal on June 17, 2018, 01:10:51 pm »
I recently played through a really great sounding Sunn 215 at a show and I love the sound I got out of it. I didn't get much information from the owner other than that it's a model from the 70's. I'm in the market for a cab anyway and the 2x15 seems like the way to go. I've found a few for sale online but they are the fender made models. I know that the post fender heads don't get much love but does this apply to the cabs as well? Assuming these cabs have the stock drivers in them are they worth acquiring?
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Classified / Re: 10 NOS rogan knobs for early sunn amps - pointer style
« Last post by madaradio on June 10, 2018, 06:54:00 am »
Sold. Thanks everyone.
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