Author Topic: 1200S for a bass rig  (Read 15355 times)

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Offline rp

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1200S for a bass rig
« on: September 18, 2006, 07:45:43 pm »
Hi, I was thinking of using a 1200S for a bass head with an Ibanez bass w/active pickups.
For cabs I have a hartke 4x10 400watts and a hartke 1x15 at 150 watts, both at 8 ohms.
Can I do this? Any forseeable problems? Which tubes should I replace with?

thanks.

ps..I'm referring to the vintage (68) 1200S.

Offline EdBass

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Re: 1200S for a bass rig
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2006, 05:55:23 pm »
I sometimes use a Hartke 410 XL with a 200S or 2000S head and they sound much better than I think they should. Impressively loud with the 60 watter, and plenty of stage volume with the 2000S considering the relatively inefficient Hartke drivers. When I use an active bass however I've got to watch the basses output level or it gets kinda nasty sounding fast. I bet it would sound pretty good with both Hartke cabs at an 4 ohm total load on your old beast.

Offline rp

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Re: 1200S for a bass rig
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2006, 06:07:40 pm »
I sometimes use a Hartke 410 XL with a 200S or 2000S head and they sound much better than I think they should. Impressively loud with the 60 watter, and plenty of stage volume with the 2000S considering the relatively inefficient Hartke drivers. When I use an active bass however I've got to watch the basses output level or it gets kinda nasty sounding fast. I bet it would sound pretty good with both Hartke cabs at an 4 ohm total load on your old beast.
Thanks, I wish I could find a 2000S for my bass, but no luck as of yet. I'm guessing I should plug the 410xl into the first jack, or does it matter?
I have a gallien kruger 800rb on them now, but it sounds so wimpy and I can hardy get a good overdrive without using
a bass POD rat channel...or Pi -type channel. That's solid state though I guess.

Guitar cabinet wise I was gonna run the 1200S through a 4x12 marshall cab (8 ohms 120RMS)...is this too small a cab?
I have a 120 watt solid state marshall head on it now, and it has hardly any bottom whatsoever. Should I mix any solid state effects
for guitar or bass with it.  thanks


Offline EdBass

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Re: 1200S for a bass rig
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2006, 08:18:49 pm »
I sometimes use a Hartke 410 XL with a 200S or 2000S head and they sound much better than I think they should. Impressively loud with the 60 watter, and plenty of stage volume with the 2000S considering the relatively inefficient Hartke drivers. When I use an active bass however I've got to watch the basses output level or it gets kinda nasty sounding fast. I bet it would sound pretty good with both Hartke cabs at an 4 ohm total load on your old beast.
Thanks, I wish I could find a 2000S for my bass, but no luck as of yet. I'm guessing I should plug the 410xl into the first jack, or does it matter?
I have a gallien kruger 800rb on them now, but it sounds so wimpy and I can hardy get a good overdrive without using
a bass POD rat channel...or Pi -type channel. That's solid state though I guess.

Guitar cabinet wise I was gonna run the 1200S through a 4x12 marshall cab (8 ohms 120RMS)...is this too small a cab?
I have a 120 watt solid state marshall head on it now, and it has hardly any bottom whatsoever. Should I mix any solid state effects
for guitar or bass with it.  thanks



The 2 speaker jacks in the back of a 1200S are either wired for 8 & 4 ohm, or 8 & 16 ohm respectively. If you don't know and they aren't marked, find a tech who can tell you how the jacks are wired to the output transformer. Tell them what you are doing and they can show you how, or rewire them to the appropriate output transformer taps. Experimenting with speaker loads on tube amps can get expensive, you probably should try to get it right the first time!

The 8 ohm Marshall cab should work fine with the 1200S, assuming you get it wired to the 8 ohm trans tap.(see above)


Offline rp

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Re: 1200S for a bass rig
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2006, 08:29:56 pm »
I sometimes use a Hartke 410 XL with a 200S or 2000S head and they sound much better than I think they should. Impressively loud with the 60 watter, and plenty of stage volume with the 2000S considering the relatively inefficient Hartke drivers. When I use an active bass however I've got to watch the basses output level or it gets kinda nasty sounding fast. I bet it would sound pretty good with both Hartke cabs at an 4 ohm total load on your old beast.
Thanks, I wish I could find a 2000S for my bass, but no luck as of yet. I'm guessing I should plug the 410xl into the first jack, or does it matter?
I have a gallien kruger 800rb on them now, but it sounds so wimpy and I can hardy get a good overdrive without using
a bass POD rat channel...or Pi -type channel. That's solid state though I guess.

Guitar cabinet wise I was gonna run the 1200S through a 4x12 marshall cab (8 ohms 120RMS)...is this too small a cab?
I have a 120 watt solid state marshall head on it now, and it has hardly any bottom whatsoever. Should I mix any solid state effects
for guitar or bass with it.  thanks



The 2 speaker jacks in the back of a 1200S are either wired for 8 & 4 ohm, or 8 & 16 ohm respectively. If you don't know and they aren't marked, find a tech who can tell you how the jacks are wired to the output transformer. Tell them what you are doing and they can show you how, or rewire them to the appropriate output transformer taps. Experimenting with speaker loads on tube amps can get expensive, you probably should try to get it right the first time!

The 8 ohm Marshall cab should work fine with the 1200S, assuming you get it wired to the 8 ohm trans tap.(see above)


I was told that it was 8 & 16...I really don't understand ohms so I guess I'm at a loss.

Offline Isaac

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Re: 1200S for a bass rig
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2006, 11:04:25 am »
First off, this is the old, tube 1200S, right? If it's the newer, Fender-era 1200S with the solid state output, then none of this is applicable.

The output transformers on the old Sunns have three outputs: 4, 8 and 16 ohms. They had only two output jacks, though. the way they were wired, there was one main output, either 8 or 16 ohms, which was determined by the cabinet the amp was sold with. The other jack was wired to the next lower impedance, either 4 or 8 ohms. It was also wired such that, when a plug is inserted, it switches the other jack to the lower impedance. So, if you have one 16 ohm cabinet, you plug it into the 16 ohm jack. If you have an 8 ohm cabinet, you plug it into the 8 ohm jack. If you have two 16 ohm cabinets (total 8 ohm load, in parallel), no problem. You plug one into the 16 ohm jack, and the other into the 8 ohm jack. The internal wiring puts both cabinets in parallel, connected to the 8 ohm tap on the output transformer, and everything is fine.
Isaac

Offline rp

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Re: 1200S for a bass rig
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2006, 12:50:30 pm »
First off, this is the old, tube 1200S, right? If it's the newer, Fender-era 1200S with the solid state output, then none of this is applicable.

The output transformers on the old Sunns have three outputs: 4, 8 and 16 ohms. They had only two output jacks, though. the way they were wired, there was one main output, either 8 or 16 ohms, which was determined by the cabinet the amp was sold with. The other jack was wired to the next lower impedance, either 4 or 8 ohms. It was also wired such that, when a plug is inserted, it switches the other jack to the lower impedance. So, if you have one 16 ohm cabinet, you plug it into the 16 ohm jack. If you have an 8 ohm cabinet, you plug it into the 8 ohm jack. If you have two 16 ohm cabinets (total 8 ohm load, in parallel), no problem. You plug one into the 16 ohm jack, and the other into the 8 ohm jack. The internal wiring puts both cabinets in parallel, connected to the 8 ohm tap on the output transformer, and everything is fine.
It is indeed the classic tube head from 68-69 with 16/8 ohm jacks. Let me clarify....so if I have two 8 ohm cabs, a harkte 410 and 1x15 in this instance, I can only plug in one cabinet into the second (8ohm) jack....or can I plug both 8ohm cabinets into both jacks at once it will run them both at 8 ohms, and thusly be ok?? Sorry about my ignorance, but I'm pretty new to all this. :-D


thanks

Offline EdBass

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Re: 1200S for a bass rig
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2006, 04:14:45 pm »
First off, this is the old, tube 1200S, right? If it's the newer, Fender-era 1200S with the solid state output, then none of this is applicable.

The output transformers on the old Sunns have three outputs: 4, 8 and 16 ohms. They had only two output jacks, though. the way they were wired, there was one main output, either 8 or 16 ohms, which was determined by the cabinet the amp was sold with. The other jack was wired to the next lower impedance, either 4 or 8 ohms. It was also wired such that, when a plug is inserted, it switches the other jack to the lower impedance. So, if you have one 16 ohm cabinet, you plug it into the 16 ohm jack. If you have an 8 ohm cabinet, you plug it into the 8 ohm jack. If you have two 16 ohm cabinets (total 8 ohm load, in parallel), no problem. You plug one into the 16 ohm jack, and the other into the 8 ohm jack. The internal wiring puts both cabinets in parallel, connected to the 8 ohm tap on the output transformer, and everything is fine.
It is indeed the classic tube head from 68-69 with 16/8 ohm jacks. Let me clarify....so if I have two 8 ohm cabs, a harkte 410 and 1x15 in this instance, I can only plug in one cabinet into the second (8ohm) jack....or can I plug both 8ohm cabinets into both jacks at once it will run them both at 8 ohms, and thusly be ok?? Sorry about my ignorance, but I'm pretty new to all this. :-D


thanks

If you want to run the pair of 8 ohm Hartkes, ideally you would want to get the outputs connected to the 8 & 4 ohm taps on your output transformer, and plug one cab into each output on the 1200S. Or you could rewire the jacks on your 410 from parallel to series (if you have the "XL" series Hartke 410 there are a pair of jacks on the back wired in parallel, I'm not sure what the "Transporter" series 410 has for jacks) and daisy chain the 115 to the 410 and then into your existing 16 ohm output on your 1200S.

Offline Isaac

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Re: 1200S for a bass rig
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2006, 05:39:55 pm »
It is indeed the classic tube head from 68-69 with 16/8 ohm jacks. Let me clarify....so if I have two 8 ohm cabs, a harkte 410 and 1x15 in this instance, I can only plug in one cabinet into the second (8ohm) jack....or can I plug both 8ohm cabinets into both jacks at once it will run them both at 8 ohms, and thusly be ok?? Sorry about my ignorance, but I'm pretty new to all this. :-D


thanks
You might get away with that. Both cabinets will give you a total 4 ohm load, which is a 100% mismatch with the 8 ohm output. Some say that's not going to hurt the amp. With the price of output transformers, I wouldn't take the chance.

The 4 ohm tap is still there, inside your amp. Why not the output to 8/4? You can do it yourself, if you know what you're doing, or any competent tech can do it in a matter of minutes. Or, have the output jacks wired permanently in parallel, and have an impedance selector switch installed.
Isaac

Offline ryanowens

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Re: 1200S for a bass rig
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2006, 05:47:28 pm »
If you want to run the pair of 8 ohm Hartkes, ideally you would want to get the outputs connected to the 8 & 4 ohm taps on your output transformer, and plug one cab into each output on the 1200S. Or you could rewire the jacks on your 410 from parallel to series (if you have the "XL" series Hartke 410 there are a pair of jacks on the back wired in parallel, I'm not sure what the "Transporter" series 410 has for jacks) and daisy chain the 115 to the 410 and then into your existing 16 ohm output on your 1200S.

I have the Transporter 410 (also a 115) and they just have an insert on the back, no parallel or anything.

As an aside, I dig the Hartke cabs if I'm shaping the bass to have a nasty sound (usually with a Rat in front of the cab) as I don't personally dig the Hartke sound for a more traditional bass sound.

Offline rp

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Re: 1200S for a bass rig
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2006, 06:02:50 pm »
It is indeed the classic tube head from 68-69 with 16/8 ohm jacks. Let me clarify....so if I have two 8 ohm cabs, a harkte 410 and 1x15 in this instance, I can only plug in one cabinet into the second (8ohm) jack....or can I plug both 8ohm cabinets into both jacks at once it will run them both at 8 ohms, and thusly be ok?? Sorry about my ignorance, but I'm pretty new to all this. :-D


thanks
You might get away with that. Both cabinets will give you a total 4 ohm load, which is a 100% mismatch with the 8 ohm output. Some say that's not going to hurt the amp. With the price of output transformers, I wouldn't take the chance.

The 4 ohm tap is still there, inside your amp. Why not the output to 8/4? You can do it yourself, if you know what you're doing, or any competent tech can do it in a matter of minutes. Or, have the output jacks wired permanently in parallel, and have an impedance selector switch installed.
I figured that, yeh I'm not going to chance it. Though, I really have no idea how to rewire the head.....
they do have one guy locally that might be able to rewire it to the 8/4 tap, but I have no idea if he's ever done it before.
I also was looking to buy a 16 ohm guitar cab from avatarspeakers.com for it, so rewiring it would only disservice me in that
department....I guess I should just plug the 4x10 xl into the 8 ohm and leave it be.

Offline rp

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Re: 1200S for a bass rig
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2006, 06:12:06 pm »
First off, this is the old, tube 1200S, right? If it's the newer, Fender-era 1200S with the solid state output, then none of this is applicable.

The output transformers on the old Sunns have three outputs: 4, 8 and 16 ohms. They had only two output jacks, though. the way they were wired, there was one main output, either 8 or 16 ohms, which was determined by the cabinet the amp was sold with. The other jack was wired to the next lower impedance, either 4 or 8 ohms. It was also wired such that, when a plug is inserted, it switches the other jack to the lower impedance. So, if you have one 16 ohm cabinet, you plug it into the 16 ohm jack. If you have an 8 ohm cabinet, you plug it into the 8 ohm jack. If you have two 16 ohm cabinets (total 8 ohm load, in parallel), no problem. You plug one into the 16 ohm jack, and the other into the 8 ohm jack. The internal wiring puts both cabinets in parallel, connected to the 8 ohm tap on the output transformer, and everything is fine.
It is indeed the classic tube head from 68-69 with 16/8 ohm jacks. Let me clarify....so if I have two 8 ohm cabs, a harkte 410 and 1x15 in this instance, I can only plug in one cabinet into the second (8ohm) jack....or can I plug both 8ohm cabinets into both jacks at once it will run them both at 8 ohms, and thusly be ok?? Sorry about my ignorance, but I'm pretty new to all this. :-D


thanks

If you want to run the pair of 8 ohm Hartkes, ideally you would want to get the outputs connected to the 8 & 4 ohm taps on your output transformer, and plug one cab into each output on the 1200S. Or you could rewire the jacks on your 410 from parallel to series (if you have the "XL" series Hartke 410 there are a pair of jacks on the back wired in parallel, I'm not sure what the "Transporter" series 410 has for jacks) and daisy chain the 115 to the 410 and then into your existing 16 ohm output on your 1200S.
I do have the 410xl series and it has two jacks on the back, but I wouldn't even know how to start rewiring it to series.
That idea sounds good to me, but I have heard that daisy chaining on a 1200S might blow all the cabs in series.
I would really rather avoid rewiring...especially for lower ohms. I wanted to avoid mods on it and keep it stock as possible.
 Seems I'm in a pickle. :|

Offline rp

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Re: 1200S for a bass rig
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2006, 06:15:56 pm »
If you want to run the pair of 8 ohm Hartkes, ideally you would want to get the outputs connected to the 8 & 4 ohm taps on your output transformer, and plug one cab into each output on the 1200S. Or you could rewire the jacks on your 410 from parallel to series (if you have the "XL" series Hartke 410 there are a pair of jacks on the back wired in parallel, I'm not sure what the "Transporter" series 410 has for jacks) and daisy chain the 115 to the 410 and then into your existing 16 ohm output on your 1200S.

I have the Transporter 410 (also a 115) and they just have an insert on the back, no parallel or anything.

As an aside, I dig the Hartke cabs if I'm shaping the bass to have a nasty sound (usually with a Rat in front of the cab) as I don't personally dig the Hartke sound for a more traditional bass sound.
Nasty is what it's all about. :-D I will also use a POD to shape the final output sound....the orange phase
channel is pretty nice for evening out the sound.

Offline rp

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Re: 1200S for a bass rig
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2006, 10:34:34 pm »
How about this for a solution?
I don't want to change my head wiring, but I want to use two nice bass cabs....how about I plug
the hartke 4x10xl into the 8 ohm slot....for the 16 ohm slot get me an empty 2x15 cab
and load it with a couple of heavy magnet 16 ohm eminence speakers??
Wouldn't that make it a 16 ohm cabinet?

Thanks guys   robin