Author Topic: Sentura I restore - Need grill cloth, logo badge and replacment 0-10 knobs.  (Read 272 times)

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Offline Stratmanx

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Good afternoon folks,

First time posting, and I'm in the process of restoring my old 1968 Sentura I.

I've found the 30-20-20-20 muti-cap can from Antique Electronics,  and the 100uf @35v and 50uf @ 150v caps from Mouser.

3 Conductor power cord will be installed, death cap removed and wired correctly so the power light on the off on works correctly.

First off, many years ago when I was young and dumb, I spray painted the grill cloth black, like a lot of us dummies did.

And to add insult to injury, over the years I've lost the logo badge as well.

I know the proper grillcloth for these early Sunn amps is next to impossible to find, so was thinking that the ampeg grill cloth might be a somewhat close substitute ?

https://www.tubesandmore.com/products/grill-cloth-ampeg-blacksilver-34-wide

And I'm sure the badges are next to impossible as well, so curious if anyone is making reproductions ?

And then we come to the Witch Hat skirt 0-10 knobs. Sure, you can find  1-10's, but I haven't come across any 0-10's and wondering if anyone has a source on these ?

BTW, in the picture the blue tape was over the logo on the chassis ass I was playing "Guess this Amp" with other guitar players.

http://www.fenderforum.com/userphotos/index.html?recid=83422



Thanks folks !


Offline Stratmanx

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Looks like Wendell DF7005 will do the grill cloth, but don't need as much as their minimum order is, just enough for the grill.

Wondering if they sell smaller cut off pieces ?

Offline Soundmasterg

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The multi-cap can isn't the best choice for your amp. It is often over-voltage with the higher voltage supply these days. Antique Electronics has also had some quality issues in the past with those style of caps. They manufacture those themselves through a subsidiary. Those caps are also expensive compared to using discrete caps inside the chassis with some terminal strips.

I don't know anywhere that you can get the knobs. The grille cloth for the later Sunn stuff is similar enough that the Fender stuff can be used. The earlier Sunn stuff is gone, though the stuff Traynor is using is close. Check out the grille cloth thread for more info.

Greg

Offline Stratmanx

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Thanks Greg, very much appreciated.

For the most part this amp is going to be a home closet queen.

I've had is since 1379 and its very clean, the only dumb things I did was painting the grill cloth, putting an off on switch on the front panel for the tremolo, and attempting a pilot light to indicate that - FAIL !

All this I did when I was in my 20's back then, so its pretty immaculate other than that.

So the multi cap vs discreet component would be a no brainier if I was using this thing often, as it is, I'm more of a Deluxe Reverb / Marshall Plexi kind of guy and knowing that a Sunn is ultra clean, makes it a great amp to have, but limited in my use of it, so am hoping to get away with multi cap appearance as well as functionality, even though I know its not optimum.

That being said, it would be sweet if someone would make a nice little breadboard / PCB with the proper caps on it, much like old Fender filter caps under the Dog  House, and it would "Bolt right up". tucked inside and clean.

Would there be enough demand for it you think?

 

Offline Isaac

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Isaac

Offline EdBass

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I've used an SDS board in a 2000S for a decade or so, works like a charm and sounds great. Plenty of real estate to work with in the 2000S chassis, and a big improvement in bottom end tightness and overall headroom.

http://www.triodeelectronics.com/sdslabmk3cap1.html



and this KTL13 from Authenticap in a 40 watt split chassis Sunn and also in a 200S/K140 loaded Sonic I-40 rig that I've been gigging pretty much exclusively for the past year+.

https://www.die-wuestens.de/dindex.htm?/k8.htm



The KTL13 works great, is a drop in for the original 525V Sprague and is rated at 550+V so it's less of a concern for the modern wall voltages that Soundmasterg mentions. The band I'm in gigs fairly regularly; this is the 1rst no gig weekend I've had since late May and we are back at it again through Sept. starting 8/26.
Wearing this old man out, but my 49 yr old Sunn takes it in stride.
The Authenticap seems to be a no fuss, no mod answer, and based on your post, pretty much what you are looking for.



Offline Soundmasterg

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Thanks Greg, very much appreciated.

For the most part this amp is going to be a home closet queen.

I've had is since 1379 and its very clean, the only dumb things I did was painting the grill cloth, putting an off on switch on the front panel for the tremolo, and attempting a pilot light to indicate that - FAIL !

All this I did when I was in my 20's back then, so its pretty immaculate other than that.

So the multi cap vs discreet component would be a no brainier if I was using this thing often, as it is, I'm more of a Deluxe Reverb / Marshall Plexi kind of guy and knowing that a Sunn is ultra clean, makes it a great amp to have, but limited in my use of it, so am hoping to get away with multi cap appearance as well as functionality, even though I know its not optimum.

That being said, it would be sweet if someone would make a nice little breadboard / PCB with the proper caps on it, much like old Fender filter caps under the Dog  House, and it would "Bolt right up". tucked inside and clean.

Would there be enough demand for it you think?

You're welcome!

Home closet queen or not, the problem is that when your amp was built the wall voltages were 110VAC - 115VAC, but nowadays they are 120VAC - 125VAC. Inside the amp this results in a B+ DC voltage that exceeds the rating of that can cap you are planning on using. In other words, the voltage values on the schematic are no longer what the DC voltages inside the amp are today.....they are much higher in the amp. In short, that cap will work for awhile but since it is over voltage, it will fail prematurely. Using discrete caps inside the chassis with terminal strips will solve this as the caps can be wired in series which gives you half the capacitance but twice the voltage. If the cap values are appropriately chosen then you can get the same performance and tone as what the amp originally had, but you get a voltage rating on the series connected caps that will be adequate no matter what the wall voltage is. The original can cap can be left in place, but electrically it is disconnected, so the amp looks the same from the outside.

The other option, and perhaps the best one for you since it is easiest, is instead of discrete caps, go with the choices that EdBass mentioned. As long as the voltage rating of the caps used is going to be higher than what the actual voltage that point in the circuit sees, it doesn't matter where you get the caps as long as they function appropriately. Those options he mentioned meet those needs well.

Greg
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 04:49:07 pm by Soundmasterg »

Offline Ryan Phelps

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Good recommendations from Issac, EdBass and Soundmasterg ....I agree.

There was a recent thread on this site regarding a replacement grill cloth for the 1st style cloth.......

http://sunnforum.ampage.org/index.php/topic,10318.0.html

Wendell still makes the 2nd style grill cloth (at least very close) DF7005 .....it's a 5 yard minimum order. Some guys will use Fender blackface-era cloth turned 90 degrees (with the rectangular pattern running vertically)......it's kind of close.

Sunn badges show up on eBay occasionally. Also watch Reverb.com and this site.

Rogan made the Sunn knobs, numbered 0 - 10. Many guys will substitute a black Fender knob (numbered 1 - 10), lots of guys won't notice except for die-hard Sunn collectors. Many years ago, a forum member had Rogan make a bunch of Sunn knobs and some of us scooped them up for restoration work. Last fall someone did this again and they were offered on eBay and Reverb. Also note that recently someone was offering a similar knob, advertised for Sunn and Musicman amps. In fact, while correct for Musicman amps, they were not correct for Sunn amps. The typeface had a "square-shouldered" look where the Sunn knobs did not.

Offline Stratmanx

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Wow !

Many great suggestions, thanks guys !   

I've got to look into those SDS boards.

Offline Ductapeman

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Re: Sentura I restore - Need grill cloth, logo badge and replacment 0-10 knobs.
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2017, 04:29:10 pm »
This thread is highly relevant to my interests-- I am about to do something irresponsible-- a friend of mine has a near-mint 200S in his garage taking up space. I have a bit of disposable income. See where this is going? Took a decent look at it and the only problems seem to be corrosion on the hard-corners and handle end-- did I mention that the bottom has D140f's in it? Once I get it where I can field-strip it I'll take a flock of photos-- I know I've seen the corners and handles for sale somewhere-- I've given up hope of restoring the 2000S box, it has turned into the piece of gear in the back of the truck that chews pieces out of other gear (this may have been by design)--

Offline Isaac

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Re: Sentura I restore - Need grill cloth, logo badge and replacment 0-10 knobs.
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2017, 07:16:22 am »
I'm confused. What part of this is irresponsible?  :evil:
Isaac

Offline D.M.N.

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Re: Sentura I restore - Need grill cloth, logo badge and replacment 0-10 knobs.
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2017, 04:49:49 pm »
Here's links for the corners:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sunn-Amp-Corners-4-Total-Screws-2-L-/142498332327?hash=item212d8ffea7:g:H60AAOxyHE5RuSem
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sunn-Amp-Speaker-Cabinet-Corners-4-Total-Screws-3-L-/142498332311?epid=1731506423&hash=item212d8ffe97:g:5i0AAOSwQItUGIwg


Here's a link for the leather style handles:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sunn-Amp-Handle-Replacement-new-/142487008883?hash=item212ce33673:m:mdKg9RCtGxI2HPZGoIHqmTQ

I haven't found a proper replacement for the older plastic/rubber handles, but these are close and have the squarer end caps:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sunn-Amp-and-Cabinet-Rubber-Handle-80s-/132319389996?hash=item1eced9a92c:m:mlafYst7U2hZwWRCWt36n_g

For name badge, this guy makes nice ones out of mother of pearl and ebony. Not exactly the OG replacement, but an option if you're interested:
http://www.liggettguitars.com/sunn-replacement-nameplate-badge/

Now for the grill cloth.

Someone posted my search efforts in the other thread. I very much would like to restore my cabs with the OG style, which I prefer over the later Fender-style. As such, the best I've found is the Acoustone 4540. It's not quite exact, in fact it's more a mirror of the original sunn grill cloth as you can see in my thread. I also believe it's a little less dense with a little less silver thread. Nonetheless, it's pretty close, and I'm pretty sure it's also what is on the recent Traynor reissues (which featured an almost identical cloth to Sunn mounted in a different orientation), although based on pictures it looks like their fabric might be slightly greyer/dense, more like the original. I've also noted old Ampeg grill cloth was fairly close as well. However, in trying to source Ampeg grill cloth currently, I don't believe the grill available from Fliptops is close to either the original Ampeg fabric or Sunn (in fact I suspect there's a fair amount of variability in the Ampeg cloth runs, as it looks different than even some recent heads using purportedly the same cloth). I'll update my thread with comparison photos later today. So, as of right now, the best recommendation for closest match to the original grill is Acoustone 4540. I'll update my thread further if I ever hear back from Traynor's supplier, Foss Mfc.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 05:02:08 pm by D.M.N. »
House of the Rising Sunn........
-----------------------------------
1968 2000s
1969 200s
2010 2000s DIY 2x15 (JBL K140s)
1971 2000s 2x15 (JBL K140s)

Offline Ryan Phelps

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Re: Sentura I restore - Need grill cloth, logo badge and replacment 0-10 knobs.
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2017, 01:55:18 pm »
If you need Sunn corners, go here:

http://www.reliablehardware.com/cabinetcorners.aspx

Models RH-1270 and RH-1280. They also carry the correct screws. Very well priced.

Offline Stratmanx

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Re: Sentura I restore - Need grill cloth, logo badge and replacment 0-10 knobs.
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 11:08:13 am »
I went to order the Acoustone grill cloth, but the minimum order is 2, with $27 shipping.

That comes to $100.50 !

Heck I don't need two pieces 72" x 36",   

Only need enough to recover the grill on a Sentura I head,  so that's way out of the price range for the small piece I need.

There's gotta be a better way..