Author Topic: 200s cab plan request  (Read 7660 times)

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Offline catalin gramada

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Re: 200s cab plan request
« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2014, 11:26:46 am »
and another one...


please note in this one the speaker do not tough the batten to the upper side, it is a bit clearance over there looks like 0.5" or so. that means the production had not consistency over the years maybe and vary a little bit. I can suppose the hight of port between 4.75" and 5.25" inside.and btw you was right regard the opening shape of front gril  it is not oval one but just round routed on bottom corners to add some strengh as time the bottom side of frame is suported just in the corners and seems to be done from 0.5" ply board.
Cheers
Catalin
« Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 11:47:04 am by catalin gramada »
Catalin

Offline Soundmasterg

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Re: 200s cab plan request
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2014, 08:54:12 pm »
I can post some pics and details about the cab that I made when I get home. As I said before it is as tall as a 2000S head is wide, and is as wide as a 200S head. The post is the full width of the cabinet, is on the bottom, and is only half as tall as the port in the 2x15. This keeps the resonant frequency the same as the larger cabinet.  The back of the cabinet on the bottom however is done like an Ampeg SVT cabinet where it has an angle cut in it, and wheels mounted to it. I don't think I have any interior pics but I know I have some of the outside....so I'll post them in a couple hours.

Greg

EDIT: Ok here are some pics of the cabinet I made for myself. It has silver grille cloth now.

« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 03:04:13 am by Soundmasterg »

Offline catalin gramada

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Re: 200s cab plan request
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2014, 09:04:30 am »
Hello
Nice one man, congrats. Looks pretty massive to me , I wonder why you considered too loose ? I am very curious if you had possibility to compare with a 200s and what are the diferences in sound ? It is still tight and fast ? have you enough extension in the lows, please ?Thank you
Cheers
Happy Christmas to all !
Catalin
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 11:28:31 am by catalin gramada »
Catalin

Offline loudthud

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Re: 200s cab plan request
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2014, 06:00:03 pm »
One thing I want to bring up. Most of the Sunn cabinets I've opened up have significant overspray of the flat black paint on the inside. To me, it suggests that the shell was assembled when it went through the paint line before the tolex was applied. Some of the pics posted by Catalin don't seem to have any overspray on the angled board behind the driver. Are they genuine Sunn cabinets or fakes?

Offline Soundmasterg

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Re: 200s cab plan request
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2014, 07:16:23 pm »
Hello
Nice one man, congrats. Looks pretty massive to me , I wonder why you considered too loose ? I am very curious if you had possibility to compare with a 200s and what are the diferences in sound ? It is still tight and fast ? have you enough extension in the lows, please ?Thank you
Cheers
Happy Christmas to all !
Catalin

It is certainly not as large as a 200S cabinet, and is really just a little bit bigger than the Sunn 1x15 cabinets that were offered back in the day. I am not sure what you are asking about when you say I considered too loose? Perhaps the sound too loose? I would say in answer to that, no, not at all. In fact, since I am friends with Conrad Sundholm, and he has an LMS system to measure the response of cabinets, and I live across town from him, we measured Isaac's 200S cabinet with the system, and we measured this 1x15 cabinet also. In most respects they are almost identical in their frequency response, even with the different speakers used. (A 200S cabinet uses two JBL D140's or K140's. This one uses an E140 and some 6 inch speakers hooked up to a crossover, though they were not installed when it was tested initially) The 200S cabinet has a little better high end extension, and the lows extend slightly lower also. I would have to look at the plots again to be able to quote numbers however. The reason the cabinet is so close to a 2x15 in sound and performance is that the port is the exact same size as in the 2x15, but is half the height. This allows for the same frequency response out of the port. The cabinet is as tall as a 2000S head is wide, and it is also as deep as a 2000S cabinet, so it has a bit larger internal volume than the vintage Sunn 1x15's, but not quite as much as the vintage Sunn 2x15's. The smaller port controls the bass and makes sure it is not boomy. It is extensively braced internally to stop cabinet rattling, and it also has a lot of foam inside to stop reflections from the square angles. A 200S 2x15 cabinet will be slightly louder than this 1x15 due to having two speakers and more speaker surface area with identical efficiency speakers will result in more volume. Other than that it sounds very much like a Sunn 2x15 without the 6 inch speakers in place. I have those hooked up to a switch on the cabinet now so I can use them or not.

Greg

P.S. I think you are right loudthud about how the vintage cabs were produced. That is how Conrad does his cabinets now too.

Offline catalin gramada

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Re: 200s cab plan request
« Reply #33 on: December 25, 2014, 02:51:55 am »
Hello and thanks for answers.
I just can supose the diferences in reponse comes from acoustical coupling in lows (with a gain +6db) and better dispersion in hights when two speakers were used. Those can justify the better "extension" to the "ends". Still wonder if two speakers in different stacked cabs (half volume and port size) have the same reponse as two mounted into one cab, please?
Best Regards
Cheers
Catalin
« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 05:03:55 pm by catalin gramada »
Catalin

Offline Soundmasterg

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Re: 200s cab plan request
« Reply #34 on: December 26, 2014, 08:39:40 pm »
Hello and thanks for answers.
I just can supose the diferences in reponse comes from acoustical coupling in lows (with a gain +6db) and better dispersion in hights when two speakers were used. Those can justify the better "extension" to the "ends". Still wonder if two speakers in different stacked cabs (half volume and port size) have the same reponse as two mounted into one cab, please?
Best Regards
Cheers
Catalin

Yeah I am not sure....two speakers in the same cabinet would interact to a certain extent with different frequencies cancelling and others getting boosted. The main thing is that if you decide to use a smaller cabinet, you have to reduce the size of the port to maintain the same frequency response out of the cabinet such as what I did. The question as to whether two cabs with half volume and port size would be the same as one cab can be tested if you have access to the tools to build the cabs and an LMS system to test it. My cab is larger than half size by a bit since the height and depth are the same as a 2000S cabinet. My cabinet also has a different speaker (JBL E140 vs JBL D140 or JBL K140) so the sound is going to be different. My cabinet sounds very good and several people would like to buy it right now for studio use for themselves, but since I use it for that purpose and also for some live use when I don't need as much volume as the large cabinet, or don't want to lug around the large cabinet, then it is useful for me to keep it around.

In some ways I think you are overanalyzing the situation. Build some configuration and see what you think of it. If you don't like it, you can sell it and try again with a different design. THe basic setup sounds good, and if you do it like I did mine, it sounds very close to a 200S, with a slightly different sound due to the different speaker. In the past I tried a D140 in that cabinet and it sounded much like a 200S cabinet with a lower volume due to only one speaker.

Greg

Offline catalin gramada

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Re: 200s cab plan request
« Reply #35 on: December 27, 2014, 02:00:59 pm »
Hello.
I tried to figure a perspective for a project with vents at half 200s. it looks just like that:



Beste
Catalin
« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 04:23:22 pm by catalin gramada »
Catalin

Offline catalin gramada

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Re: 200s cab plan request
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2015, 04:04:25 am »
I think pretty much any bass cab should have damping material inside, all of the Sunn cabs came that way from the factory. It can enhance the overall bass response, largely by damping mid and high frequencies and calming structural cabinet vibrations.

+1. fiberglass wool lining 2" thick was added.it was very effective.Thanks.
Catalin
Catalin

Offline Flex

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Re: 200s cab plan request
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2015, 07:44:34 pm »
Hello Catalin,
thank you for your nice work. That will help me alot.
I'm planing to build an 115 cab for my Sonic I-40.
Do you have the information about the height of the port?

Offline catalin gramada

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Re: 200s cab plan request
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2015, 07:13:09 pm »
Hi,thanks
no. unfortunately I have not the confirmed original dimensions but found a clone project here , maybe can help :http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.html/searchthreadgateway.php?topic_number=749366 and here : https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.173296412683317.45280.100000088776971&l=e54e472e54
Cheers
Catalin
Catalin

Offline Soundmasterg

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Re: 200s cab plan request
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2015, 01:34:35 am »
Flex,

In order for the 1x15 cabinet to have the same frequency response of the larger 2x15, you need to make the port half as tall as the 2x15 cabinet like I did on my 1x15 posted above in the pics.

Greg

Offline sugeszi

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Re: 200s cab plan request
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2015, 11:44:48 pm »
Hi!
The project shows the Eminence Legend CB158. They are very different from the originals jbl K140?
Thanks

Offline parker_knoll

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Re: 200s cab plan request
« Reply #41 on: August 01, 2015, 11:32:55 pm »
Greg, could you give us the dimensions of your cab?

I'm looking at building a similar full range with crossover using a JBL 15" and a JBL 10". I will probably use a circular port rather than a vent as it's a little simpler.

Also, what silver grill cloth did you use? did you manage to find something close to Sunn spec?

thanks

Toby

Some of the Sunn amps like the Sonic I-40 had the smaller cabinet that they came with like the one you show there. It is basically half of a 200S cabinet.

I built myself something similar....I made the width when the cabinet was upright the same width as a 200S head. The height when the cabinet is upright is the same width as a 2000S cabinet, so that when I flip the cabinet I made on its side then a 2000S head will fit on it. The port is along the bottom and is the same width as a 200S cabinet, but the height of the port is half of a 200S cabinet port to keep the same bottom end frequency response. The bottom of the cabinet is done just like an Ampeg SVT cabinet so the back part of the cabinet has an angle cut into it where wheels mount and the cabinet can be rolled around. There are handles on the sides that are the same as a Marshall 4x12 cabinet. It has a JBL E140 in it, and then later I added a couple 6 inch tweeters too that I had Conrad voice a crossover for. I also had to greatly increase the internal support as the cabinet was too loose and would move itself backwards across a garage floor in a loud amp head was on top of it. It was pretty funny actually, but after the internal bracing it is rock solid now and stays where you put it with no cabinet rattles. With the different speaker in it, of course the cabinet sounds different than a 200S cabinet, but it actually sounds really good and I like to record with it. I can provide pics if you want though I don't have internal pics. The cabinet is front loaded btw, and it is filled with lots of damping material too.

Greg